Episode Transcript:  

  So of course no one has a crystal ball and no one knows exactly what's going to happen in the market, but there are indicators that we can pay close attention to that are making people feel a little more optimistic these days. We're gonna unpack that and more on today's episode. Let's get REady2Scale.

Hey guys, my name is Jeannette Friedrich. I'm the director of investor Relations here at Blue Lake Capital, where we specialize in multifamily investments across the us. Joining me today is Bryan Doyle. Bryan is the managing Director of Capital Markets for CBRE. He essentially serves as the head of their private client program as and is also a business lead for their capital markets technology.

He also sits on the board of Advisors at Blooma, which is a VC-backed digital underwriting platform powered by ai. And prior to that he was a senior product manager at Mitchell International, which is a KKR portfolio company. He has his MBA from San Diego State University, as well as his undergrad in finance from the University of Hawaii.

And he's pretty much my neighbor joining us today from Carlsbad, California. So Bryan, welcome to the show. 

Jeanette, thank you. Thank you for that nice intro and, and thank you for having me. And, and despite everything you said, I just think of myself as somebody who started their career as a commercial real estate, multi-family investment sales broker.

Somehow found themselves in technology, got to the debt side of this world, and then now kind of do what I do. And it's, it's great to be here. 

Hey. But that's a wonderful story because you know, a lot of people, I think, especially in real estate, start in one spot and find themself way in another down the road.

And the reality is, is when it comes to real estate, it is constantly evolving and it is like constantly a learning process. And so, as you know, we evolve and we have to adapt and overcome different market cycles, different emerging technologies. It's, it's pretty fun. There's never a dull day, that's for sure.

Uh, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I learn every day and there are challenges left and right, but that's what makes it fun. 

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Alright, well Bryan, let's get into it. So, uh, I have an interesting, maybe challenging question for you, but I wanted to know, if you had to pick one myth to bust about the private client multifamily market in 2025, what would that be?

Now, um, full disclosure, I'm bias. We are a, we're an intermediary, we're a broker. We finance deals. Um, but that being said, I think that the, the number one myth is that indecision is a decision, right? We, we talk to so many people all day long, whether they, you know. Are considering refinancing, where they're considering selling their property, whether they're, they're looking at other investment decisions and, you know, we might talk about this later, but often people are thinking, well, you know, this isn't the market to sell in, but the market you sell in is the market you buy in.

And I've been in hot markets where it's a great time to sell, but they, people are saying, Hey, what will I buy? I don't wanna overpay. And, and you know, in most things, in the financial world or in markets. You don't get to, you know, sell at the top and to buy at the bottom, right? You sell and buy in the same market, and you kinda need to be looking at other things like return on equity.

Is this the right strategy? When things do turn, am I well positioned for the upside there? So I think the biggest myth we run into is that, you know, wait and see is a, you know, whether you like it or not, that is a strategy and a decision you're making. 

Wow. Very interesting perspective. And you're right, everybody says, don't try to time the markets, but then in the same breath, they turn around and say, but we'll wait and see.

So that's actually Exactly, yeah, that's actually a very fair point. Yeah, you can, you can't just be a real estate investor when things are good. You know? You have to be able to recognize when the market has shifted. And yeah, it's a down market and because of that, a lot of people don't wanna sell. But you're right, it's also a prime time to pick up properties, which is why it's very worth a serious consideration.

So, yeah. Very good. All right. Well, now what I'd like to know is, uh, so let's actually talk about deals, right? What kind of deals are even getting done? So what are private buyers actually closing on this quarter and what are they passing on and why? 

Hmm, that's a good question. Well, kind of going back to the, the theme I mentioned earlier, right?

If, if. You know, if, if financially, um, or just kind of like a, um, if, if, if, if now is not the right time to sell, right? If you don't have a mechanism that's bringing to the market, for some people it's maturing loans. For some people it's a, a change in interest only periods or some structure that changes their cashflow.

For others, it's, you know, dissolving partnerships or other life events. Um. Then obviously there are kind of the the bucket that I think gets less talked about. I mean, people know about the ones I just said, people that have to do something. The market anticipates that. That's always a driver. But kind of what I mentioned earlier is that that return on equity piece, right?

There are a lot of assets out there that they were bought a while ago and they have. Had depreciation, um, to the extent that they can, they have gone up in value. They have raised NOI and, and often in the private client space, people are doing, uh, you know, they have other jobs and other, other passions, or they've got multiple projects and they're not constantly looking at their asset and saying, okay, well.

Is the return on my equity end here still the best use of my funds. And, and we find that those are the deals getting done right now. People that it's not just about 10 31 and the larger trade up in economies of scale. It's got the holistic picture of how do I depreciate this kind of, you know, right.

What is my tax strategy? And, and those are the deals getting done and, and the deals that are people are passing on. It's, you're kind of typical opportunistic. Somebody is, is selling because they think they're taking advantage of the market. They think they can price their asset in a certain way, or they are getting out of a situation that, you know, they don't wanna be in, but.

They're not pricing in the fact that maybe the buyer doesn't wanna be in it at that price either. So again, I think the drivers are your traditional life events, your traditional capital events, especially on the lending side. Um, and the return on equity piece. And I think the deals that are getting done are the ones that.

Are priced where the market's at. Right? And I don't think the market's in a bad spot, but they're, they're looking at it through the lens of, Hey, I'm likely gonna sell my ideal and I'm going to become a buyer in this market. If I was a buyer, at what price would I buy this deal? And they've got realistic pricing expectations.

They're not just trying to. Sell high and buy low. Uh, they're, they are selling to take advantage of the situa, uh, situation they're in and then go find assets to optimize it. 

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Very good point. I'm curious to know too, you know, a lot of people have fantasized about blood in the water and you know, these crazy.

Buyer sales. And uh, you know, during the time that people first started talking about this, it was my opinion that a lot of it would get worked out quietly behind the scenes between lenders, uh, you know, off market deals, what have you. So I'm curious to know, has there has, was I right? You know, have you been seeing these complete blood in the water fire cell deals or Indeed, have they been quietly getting worked out kind of behind the scenes?

Jack, you, you nailed it. Right? And you, you spot on. And you just gotta think about the incentives of those involved. Uh, I think a lot of people, the blood in the water thesis, because, you know, going back a few years with Silicon Valley Bank and First Republic, we saw, um, you know, rates are rising, mortgages are gonna mature, there's gonna be less lenders.

You know, are they, they lent money at 3%, at 6%. Does that deal even make sense anymore from a cashflow perspective? But the truth is. If you think about the players involved, do the banks really want to take this stuff back and fire sale it? Do they really want to put all this on their balance sheet? Right now?

The, the incentives are a little bit of a wait and see, you know, can we, can we extend this? I hate using the words, kick the can down the railroad, pretend to extend, because I don't think that's what's happening. Multifamily, um, uh, fundamentals have been strong, right? Yeah. Vacancies are low. Uh, you know. All things considered unemployment rate has been low.

That allows people to pay their rent. The, the fundamentals are there, so it's not a let's kick the can down the road as much as. Is it in our best interest to, to force this now or to perhaps see where the market goes? And, and we've all been wrong in trying to predict the Fed and interest rate. We all have this underlying belief of like, well, it comes down eventually.

And, and I, I think Jeanette, that is, um, allow the water to remain more water, less blood. And, um, and, and we'll see kind of where we go from here. 

Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Well, I appreciate the confirmation there. Um, and we'll see, hopefully it continues to remain, uh, working out in that fashion, uh, for a lot of people's interests.

Now, I'm curious to know too, since you're so close to deal flow and you get to see all the fun stuff behind the scenes, you know, even more than I do, uh, 'cause I only get to see our own deals. Right. Um, I'm curious to know if you had to rank basically the top three diligence items that are derailing.

Trades today. What are they? So, you know, for example, is it property taxes after reassessment? Is it insurance availability? Which we all know has, uh, just risen astronomically. Is it, you know, uh, uh, quality, you know, of collections, you know, kind of pinching in the NOI like, where is it that you know, that, that basically trades are just falling dead?

That's a great question. I think you already hit on all the themes. You are, you are living it. I'm, I'm perhaps maybe like seeing a broader swath, but less kind of day to day the way that I'm sure you've got the insight into it, but you hit the themes. Right. And, and they, they ebb and flow by geography and cycle.

I remember 12 months ago talking to people that we were with out in Florida and you know, post hurricane season insurance was incredibly high. And Jeanette, we, we know this in our backyard with fire season. Mm-hmm. And that just. The pipeline of deals, right, because the, the insurance rates were were incredible and.

24 months ago, we were having all kinds of rate volatility and it was rate caps. People in the multi-family space loved to buy agency deals and they, the financing was penciling and you were getting there. And then Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae make you buy a rate cap, which is, if you've got a floating rate, just kind of limits to Billy Go.

They became astronomically expensive. 'cause it's hard to guess what's gonna happen to rates. And, you know, today, um, as we kind of look at the pipeline. I think it's the same thing on the, the financing front. It is, um, deals in the market that aren't priced realistically to the market. You, you may find that needle in a haystack buyer, that individual in a 10 31 exchange who's motivated more.

Are motivated buying more than just a great low price. But other factors, they like the deal. They're, they're under a timeline, they're gonna go in there, but at the end of the day, they still really can only like, purchase up to what the bank will lend them. So mm-hmm. Kind of being aware of, um, debt service coverage ratios as a limiter on leverage and an environment where rates are high, I think is, is a tricky one.

Um, kind of this year and preceding years. 

Yeah. And you know what I'm curious to know too is it's no secret, I mean, it's been all over the news. Uh, you know, capital raising, rather, we're talking from, you know, simply a multifamily syndication standpoint or even private equity in BC has been, you know, a notoriously slow and very difficult, uh, the last, you know, I would say 12 to 18 months.

So I'm curious to know, are you seeing deals fall apart just because of the shortage of equity? 

Yeah, I think you, I think they're. There are, there is equity, and I think there are buyers that, that wanna come into this market, but they are, they, they kind of had the same expectations that people had 24 months ago of blood in the water.

So I kind of, I kind of think about it as there's pools of money that is after, uh, a certain return profile that may or may not come, or may or may not come. There's pools of money that are after the market where it's at, and I think that's. What's actually kind of getting raised, and Jeanette, to your point, maybe not to the same degree it was in in years past, and then there's money that's just that.

Waiting to see and kinda, and kinda ready to set to the market. And, and I think there's always capital that wants to come into the commercial real estate space. There's, there's a lot of money that needs to be deployed out there and, and mm-hmm. You know, on the institutional front, pension funds and life companies, they need to put money.

But in our world, on private client front, more family offices than, than we have, you know, ever seen are in this space. And they're very sophisticated, but I think they are getting their pencils ready and kind of deciding what profile. And investment returns they need to be at. But I imagine, um, as the market starts to solidify and, and very interesting meetings today with the Fed and, and talking about rates and we're seeing interesting things in market, I imagine we'll start to see kind of the market get to equilibrium.

And I think that capital's coming back in a big way. 

Very good point. And it's interesting too, you know, we're, we're backed by a family office and we also have some family offices that partner with us. And I think it's interesting because the difference, right, is that family offices can be patient capital.

Whereas, you know, these pension funds, they need to deploy capital to make money. They can't. Sit there on the sideline forever and you know, so they're, they are very different risk profiles, investment strategies, um, you know, capital profiles if you will. So, yeah, it is interesting. But I do agree with you.

I think that I'm sensing, um. You know, you can only sit on the sidelines for so long before it's just like starts to really, whether you're a family office, definitely if you're a pension fund, but even as a family office or even an individual investor where it just starts to get at you that, you know, you have money just sitting there not doing anything and nobody likes that, you know, and so, right.

I completely agree. And you know, inflation hasn't been your friend the past couple of years, and Yes, the equity market has been. Great, but you know, price to earnings ratios and company valuations are higher than they've ever been in my lifetime. And you start thinking about can this continue and how do I diversify and where, where is their yield in, in other stable asset classes?

And I, partial real estate has been a great answer for those questions. A long time. 

Yes, for sure. And then of course, we have to throw in the tidbit about, you know, the big beautiful bill and the restoration of capturing bonus depreciation at a hundred percent, which is huge because it just brought back the strength of that tax strategy advantage that you, you know, is unique to real estate.

So yeah, I, I definitely think that that will also help to stir up, uh, some additional trades, you know, not only into this quarter and next, but definitely into next year as well. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, now, uh, what I would also like to kind of dig into is, you know, there's a lot of people that I think feel very stagnated.

They're not liquid, they're locked into a lot of different deals, and you know, as we've been talking about, buyer or seller expectations have just not been aligning. They're finally starting to make their way towards each other, you know? Um, so I do anticipate that we should start to finally see some trades pick up even more, uh, especially next quarter and, and into the beginning of the year.

And so I think a lot of our listeners would definitely be interested in hearing your answer to this next question, which is when they finally see like, Hey man, we're finally gonna break out of this. You know, um, you know, this, this stance we've been stuck in for so long, when they finally start to see their sponsors are moving towards, you know, preparing, taking a deal to market.

Typically, most sponsors are gonna spend at least six months, you know, really making those moves strategically ahead of time. What would be your advice to sponsors before they launch to either help maximize the asking price they're gonna be able to get, or to also reduce the risk of RET trades before they get to market?

So, you know, what do you think are, are the, the factors or the levers that can be pulled to really position the best exit possible? 

I think, I think we're in a world where, um, the, the ability to pay, uh, by the buyers are, are definitely driven by financing. And, um, the, the. As were mentioning earlier, right? A a, a buyer's limited in, um, their leverage by, uh, you know, a lender's Max LTV that they're willing to offer, but also their debt service coverage ratio, stress test.

And the big factor there obviously is NOI, um, as well as interest rates. And that's our traditional lending pool, right? And then the debt fund in Bridge World is, is, is, is gonna provide a different type of financing that's not based on debt. So for anybody who has not. Stabilize their asset, right? Like, now is the time, right?

If you, if you really wanna maximize proceeds, um. Obviously you wanna do this just as an operator, so I'm not telling anybody anything revolutionary, but, but you know, look at it from the standpoint of a lender, right? Talk to a mortgage broker and, and understand, okay, how do I, how does this property qualify for the most competitive programs?

And competitive is lower rate max proceeds quickest close. And yeah, it is. Sometimes it's operational stuff, but sometimes it's, it's other things, um, that come into play. Maybe there's a great lender in your market that. Um, does not like above 20% student housing or something of that nature. Have conversations with people, you know, on the financing side, um, and understand the way the lender's gonna look at it and, and who's really aggressive in your market.

And if there's anything your, your asset is optimized for, for meeting that program and you're gonna put yourself in a position to attract. A greater pool of buyers, right? And a greater pool of buyers that have a different cost of capital and access to capital and purchasing your property. So there's that.

And then, um, you know, I think going into any market, it it, it's kind of the fundamentals, right? Are you, are you looking to sell a stabilized asset? Are you looking to sell a value add upside asset? Um, work with your broker to understand what that buyer pool is looking for and realistically like what you can accomplish, um, during, um, whatever time span you have to prepare that going to market.

And that's more on the, the operator side. And then I would just say as far as like, um, somebody who's an investor within that group, understanding kind of how much, um. How much equity you have, what your exit strategy is on that, that you mentioned taxes. Uh, if it is a 10 31 play, um, you know, if, if you are thinking the market cycle we're about to go into is going to have some easing of interest rates and, you know, that can have, um, obviously a positive.

Impact on, on prices and valuations. Are you, um, in the best asset you can be in, or best location or the right strategy for yourself to, to maximize that upside, right? Some people think, okay, well I'm in the asset. I'm in, let's. Where the market's about to turn. Let's wait until we get all the appreciation on this building and then take advantage then.

But it, you know, think about it. There's that same dollar in this building over the next 12 months versus it may be another asset over the next 12 months, which one's gonna optimize the return? Maybe the answer is the current, uh, the current asset. But, um, it's always worth asking those questions. 

Yeah.

Excellent advice. Excellent advice. All right. And then now we'll talk about fun stuff that, not that this wasn't fun, but kind of for our listeners, you know, sometimes they're not as excited about, I know sometimes they're not as excited about lending, you know, but ai, so let's get into ai, right? Um, you know, I'm curious to know, uh, you know, the, the one of the platforms that you're associated with is doing AI underwriting, which I think is super cool because I think it's going to empower passive investors that traditionally don't know how to underwrite, don't underwrite deals, you know, to really have some really cool tools at their disposal.

And I, I just think that'll be wildly beneficial. I mean, not only do sponsors leverage it, but now really your everyday LP can also begin to potentially leverage those types of tools. And so, you know, that's one of the one example of kind of the technologies that are coming out, but there are some others and so I wanna kind of talk about the tech stack that sponsors maybe are starting to, you know, be expected to actually bring to the table with them where it's no longer just about the real estate itself and the the sponsor themself.

But it's even coming down to, okay, what's your tech stack? Like, how savvy are you in this game? Right? And so I wanna know, basically. From where you stand, what has actually improved the certainty of closing for buyers and sellers from a tech stack perspective? And what should, uh, limited partners, you know, just regular passive investors, be expecting from their sponsors to help essentially show their work, you know, on their due diligence when they are either purchasing or exiting an asset?

That's a great question, and those are the perfect two buckets that I think about it too, right? The, um, the, uh. What should, um, the limited partners expect, uh, from the, from the main owner operators and the assets and how can they use technology there? And then how can it help on the transaction side? And I'll start with the transaction side.

Um, we are just getting so much better at. I guess two areas. One, speed to execution kinda vision is the ability to look at opportunities to, instead of having the back of the napkin and then, you know, go into your deeper model and do your due diligence. A lot of that's kinda happening, um, much quicker now, right?

You're uploading an OM and operating statement and rent role and you're really understanding how that asset performs. Uh, I think we're gonna see more and more tools that cater to your investor profile. That understand, uh, what returns you're looking for, what markets you're looking for, exactly kind of what your criteria are, and are proactively kind of connecting you to these opportunities and screening them for you and scoring them in some way.

And I see that as an upfront due diligence. Again, you need to have access to those deals, but this is all gonna come together in an in ecosystem over time. So I see that, um, at CBRE where I am from, uh, we air. The number one in investment sales. And as we see a, a lot of deals flow through the platform, we look at a lot of deals that ultimately the investors don't trade.

Like it's exponential, the amount of deals we see. And, um, there's some crazy stats like seabury deal flow.com is our website where, uh, we list our property. So there are millions of visitors a year. There are hundreds of thousands of confidentiality agreements being signed today. And what we are doing with AI is understanding.

Where are the capital is going, where the active capital is going. It, it's one thing to say, okay, here's the deals that sold, and here are the people that bought them, but they're 180 days old, right? They were in due diligence for 60 days and then by the time they got to CoStar, whatever, you're looking at it, it's six days old.

Um, we see where the capital is going. Um. Before it's even gotten there, who is looking at what deals our family offices, you know, into San Diego right now? Or is it the institutional investors that are moving towards the Sunbelt and which assets are trading? And we are using that data to come in real time and AI to optimize how we're advising clients.

You know, before you put something on the market, um, and say, okay, this is how you optimize your portfolio. These will be the assets that are most likely to trade. Here are the buyer pools that are most likely to buy it. We see where the bucket's going, or vice versa. Hey, here are the assets that. Are the most competitive if you wanna go, there are maybe the ones where there's opportunity.

So I think all the data being connected is bringing a lot of insight on the operational front. I think this is really big for LPs and gps. There's some gr There are great tools out there we're seeing all day long that are taking the insight of your portfolio and taking the insight from the market and helping you optimize that property operation.

Right? Benchmarking your trashing utilities, benchmarking the other costs out there to make sure you're running your asset. Perfectly. And, and as a LP an investor, that's what you want. That's where the most returns can happen. So, um, we're seeing that both in the underwriting side, the ability to quickly screen a deal and, and, and look at, Hey, is this.

Is this line item high or low? How should I be thinking about this? Um, as well as just optimizing, having that asset in your portfolio and understanding how it performs. The AI really alerting you to things that, that you should look into or where maybe, um, where maybe you can turn the dials to increase revenue or drop expenses and super exciting time.

We're seeing a ton of that coming out and if I was investing in deals over, um. You know, the, uh, the next year or two, you know, I, I would imagine I would start seeing that trickle into, into my world to know these portfolios are optimized or of owners talking about, Hey, we're gonna move this asset because it's actually underperforming compared to other assets we could position ourselves in.

And I think we're. You know, I think we're getting to a point in time where the, um, you know, maybe the private client is going to have the tools and insight that Blackstone has had, you know, for the past four or five years. It's very much democratizing kind of that, that, um, institutional level, um, sophistication.

Uh, and, and we've already seen it. I mean, as I was mentioning earlier with the family offices, they are, they are as sophisticated as anybody else and this technology is really helping drive a lot of that. 

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm gonna put a plugin for you and say, and this is why we love CBRE. We do. And it is for this reason and many more.

Uh, you know, the insights that we are able to get from your team. And I think that historically real estate is considered so outdated. Like our data is always old and trailing and it's like so not helpful because you know, that was three months ago and three, a lot can happen in the market in three months.

Right? Agree. So I think it's really exciting. Yeah. Very, very exciting. Now I'm curious too, to know too, and this is actually to you, the listeners. Uh, I think that there's a false assumption that a lot of passive investors are, you know, passive meaning that they just don't care. But I think a lot of investors in truth do appreciate the nuances of knowing all of these kind of details.

They don't necessarily wanna do the work themselves, but they are happy to know that the work was done, that the due diligence was done, that their benchmarking is being done, and that the data is being shared. So, you know, I'm just curious, for those of you listening today. Um, you know, or if you're watching along on our YouTube channel, leave me a comment and let me know.

How much do passive investors really wanna know is, would you rather be overwhelmed in data? Take that over. Not enough communication. I think we tend to be over communicators here at Blue Lake. Um, or you know, is this almost like, Hey man, you're taking the fun outta being passive and making me feel like I'm being active here.

So for those of you listening, you're watching along today, let us know. Leave some comments on our YouTube channel, uh, so we can kind of dig into that more next time. But anyway, in the meantime, Bryan, thank you so much for all of those insights. I think it's really fun. Before we jump into what I call the lightning round questions, I do wanna ask.

Ask you to share your advice with our listeners. So why should they look to maybe some of these, um, customized technologies as opposed to believing that they can just throw everything in chat, GPT and run, run with that? 

Well, um, I, uh, you know, I, I, I am always impressed by chat, GPT and these tools that are out there, and they're, they're evolving and they're, they're, they're doing great.

But, um, at the end of the day, I, you know, I think all of these tools are. They're tools, they're like Excel, right? I can, I've been able to do amazing things in Excel for a long time, but at the end of the day, if I don't have the operating statement in rent roll, I can't underwrite a property. So they all are only as good as the data you're putting into them and it, the tools that are coming out from groups that have the data.

Um, are just, they're superpowered, right? They're, they, they're not just scouring the internet for, as we know, commercial estate data is not necessarily publicly available. So the, the people that are putting out tools that have the actual rich proprietary data sets are, are, are giving you superpowers, um, if you can use them.

That being said, I do love chat, GBT. It absolutely helps me make, uh, my emails a lot more, uh, con, uh, or should I say, um, uh, easy to read, right? Mm-hmm. Than perhaps my. Horrible grammar I normally put in there. 

Oh, well I think we all love it, but it does have its limitations, so excellent point and very good answer to that.

All right, so Bryan, are you ready for the lightning round questions, which are five questions that I ask all the guests on the show? 

Uh, let's do it. 

All right. Okay. So when you are not working, which looks like you probably work a lot wearing all those different hats that you have, what do you actually do for fun?

So I, I've got three young kids, 10, eight, and two. I find myself at. Endless children's sporting events and activities on the weekend. But I love it. I absolutely love it. Um, having the time of my life, so, uh, um, I've given up my, all my other hobbies. 

Yep. That's how it goes for quite some time. I'm, I am personally very excited.

I'm coming to, uh, an incredible milestone. My last kid is about to become 18. 

Woo. Amazing. Wow. Congratulations. Yes, 

thank you. I had four of them. It has been a long run. So 

you're gonna have to pick up some hobbies now. You can do, I 

know. Alright. This is great. Yeah. All right. So now onto the next question. Um, you know, what is something fun and interesting about you that most people don't know?

Ooh. Um, I'm pretty open books. I think people know most things about me, but, um, I, uh, I, you know, I think, um, in commercial real estate, it, uh, a lot of people gain exposure to it from kind of their upbringing. Um, the one thing that. You know, I think they're always surprised, uh, in this industry as I'm getting to know them, is, you know, I grew up in Boise, Idaho.

I was born in the middle of nowhere, Louisiana. At certain points I lived in Maine and, um, I actually, uh, only got in this industry 'cause I was going to school and didn't know what I was gonna do. Heard a commercial real estate broker speak and I thought, hey, I, I should go and do that. Then moved thousand, a thousand miles away from where I went to school randomly ended up in a, in a different city.

Cole called a bunch of brokers, got someone to hire me, and then. Went on with my career, and then 15 years later I was at this cocktail event and I saw that broker and senior E had just done an m and a and bought his company. And I was able to walk up and be like, Hey, you're the, you're the reason I'm here.

So I think in this industry, a lot of people think that they, they went to school thinking they were gonna be in it or had some exposure to it beforehand. I absolutely stumbled into it. 

Yep. Yep. I can say the same for me. Never in a million years did I think I was gonna end up in real estate. No, that's 

amazing.

Very cool. All right, well what about a book or a podcast if somebody wants to simply get a better handle on capital markets or financing, um, you know, or simply investing in general, what, what do you think has been really cool or helpful that you've gotten into from either a podcast or books or book angle?

That's a good one. I, um, I, uh, I think, you know, at a very kind of nerdy investment level, the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast is a great one to stand top of the markets in general. And then from a book level, uh, the autobiography of Michael Ovitz, I think it is called, who is Michael Lowitz is just one of the best deal making.

Books I've ever read. He was a Hollywood super agent. You don't have to have any interest in Hollywood, although that helps. But, uh, he had an amazing career and it was all about structuring deals and putting things together. And I think I, as I was reading it, I was essentially realizing like, Hey, these Hollywood agents are simply just syndicating movies.

It's no different than what we do in, in our world and I highly recommend it. 

Very cool. I'm glad you answered the question 'cause I was going to say, who is Michael? Whatever. Yes. Great. Great. All right. Very good. Now, you know, one of the things that we also like to try to draw attention to is, you know, yes, we wanna make money, we wanna have good returns, but that's not the point.

It's not, the money is not the point, it's not the fixation. Uh, the goal is about using that as a tool for really living and building extraordinary lives. So what is your advice to someone that's focused on that? 

Ooh. That's a, that's a good question. I mean, I am still learning myself and, and figuring it all out, but I, I, you know, I, I think it's probably the, the answer that, that.

Everybody gives to all this stuff, but you know, when I think about where I'm happiest, right? It, it, it's hanging out my kids at the park on the weekend or, or watching their sports game. It, it's, you know, it's usually not the, the, the trip that we planned and we're looking forward to, that ends up being stressful in the airports and all of that.

It, it's, you know, it's the moments in between and I can, I can genuinely say like that, uh, you know, being able to create the time. To, to spend time with, with family and friends is, is, you know, um, always have the best returns. 

Excellent advice. Very, very good. I take it as a, you know, slow down and appreciate the little stuff.

Right? 

That's well said. 

Yeah. Very good. All right, and then last but not least, Bryan, if people wanna get in touch with you, how can they find. 

Yeah. So I mean, in today's day and age, you, you can Google me, Bryan Doyle, um, at cbre. Um, feel free, my, my email and phone number are out there. They can email and call me.

They can look me up on LinkedIn. I try my best to answer messages there as well. And, uh, and Janet, I've gotta say thank you. It's been so much fun to be on the show with you. 

Yeah, thank you for having, uh. For having me for, thank you for coming on as well. I definitely appreciate it. I was gonna say thank you for putting up with me when I called this boring for a split second and said, let's talk about the fun stuff.

No, I was just joking. But I do love ai, so I'm having a lot of fun with the new immersion of technology that, that the industry is really embracing, which is refreshing. 

It is refreshing. Yeah. We're not known as you mentioned, for adopting technology quickly, but it feels different this time. Yeah. Like there's a lot of FOMO out there.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No, this is really insightful and I definitely appreciate it. Uh, look forward to hopefully maybe we'll have on again in about a year and we'll see if our predictions turned out to work out well and Right. And. And, you know, see how, see, you know what kind of trades we've had since then.

I, I'm optimistic. I feel like things are definitely going to improve and pick up. 

Me too. That sounds like fun. I'm an optimist, so fingers crossed. 

Yeah, exactly. Awesome. All right. And for those of you that spent your time with us today, thank you for investing it with us. Please make sure to like the show, subscribe to the show, leave us some comments, let us know what else you'd like us to dig into.

And in the meantime, be bold, be extraordinary. And just keep moving forward. Ready to Scale is brought to you by Blue Lake Capital, where we hunt down the best multi-family investment opportunities that we can find and invite investors to join in with us. We target class B value, add multi-family properties across the Sunbelt.

Our CEO Ellie Perlman, invest a substantial amount of capital into every deal. This means our interests are aligned with yours. If you're an accredited investor looking to expand your portfolio and diversify sponsors, be sure to visit us@bluelakecapital.com. Blue Lake Capital, be bold, be extraordinary, and keep moving forward.